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I figured I should be the first person to actually put it to use. Yonder Alonso went 2-5 last night with a double and a walk off opposite field HR off of a left hander in the bottom of the 10th inning.
Todd Frazier is also doing just as well as Alonso. What he lacks in avg and OBP he makes up for with extra base hits.
Alonso’s line: .327/.436/.541, 4 HR, 21 rbi, 17 runs, 98 ab
Frazier’s line: .307/.390/.580, 3 HR, 2 3B, 11 2B, 22 rbi, 17 runs, 88 at bats
Check out a question to Jim Callis on yesterday’s BA chat on ESPN:
Ben (Centerville, OH): Which Reds prospect has been more impressive in the Hawaiian Winter League, Yonder Alonso and his .438 OBP or Todd Frazier with his .593 slg? Could both of them finish 2009 in Cincinnati?
SportsNation Jim Callis: (1:57 PM ET ) Can I take both? Not sure the Reds would promote either that soon for contract ramifications, but those are the two best prospects in the system and both can hit. Frazier won’t be a SS in the majors but I could see him at 3B or in the OF.
Doug, did you really compare Yonder to Ryan Wagner? I think Wagner bagged my groceries the other day.
Come on Jeff…. Wagner was pretty dominant his first year as a pro. He spent all of 9 innings in the minors, striking out 10 and walking 2 with an ERA of 2.00. Then he was in Cincy for 21.2 innings with 25 strikeouts and a 1.15 WHIP. You can’t ask for a better introduction to pro baseball than that. Unfortunately he fell apart after that, and that is why relievers are so tough to project.
Yeah, but he did fall apart, that’s why I don’t want to be set up for that big letdown again. LOL
Seriously, let’s not jinx the poor kid by comparing him to Wagner. I’m excited about the kid (and Frazier too). This also confirms to me that he should definitely start in AA with a quick promotion to AAA possible.
I hope next season that Soto, Cozart, and Mesoraco are sent to Hawaii or Arizona. I think it displays confidence in our brightest prospects, and hopefully re-invigorates them to work hard at improving their game during the off-season.
I’ll second that, here is who I would send to Hawaii and Arizona next year respectively as it stands right now.:
Hawaii: Neftali Soto, Devin Mesoraco, 1st rd pick, JC Sulbaran
Arizona: Yonder Alonso, Todd Frazier, Chris Heisey, Zach Stewart, Travis Wood, Robert Manuel, Jordan Smith
I think Sulbaran depends on how many innings he gets in next year. Even then I would probably err on the side of caution and keep him at home resting his arm.
To D,
I would hope that Manuel and Alonso both make their major league debuts this season, although Alonso might have to wait until opening day 2010. They would probably be too advanced to send to Hawaii/Arizona, so i would leave it up to them if they want to play winter ball or not. I wouldn’t sign up the 2010 first rounder becaue he could be a high schooler or a college pitcher who’s had a full
workload.
I really like the idea of sending Soto and Mesoraco though. I also like the idea of sending cozart like wanderingredfans suggested. Another candidate for Hawaii could be Brandon Waring.
i still don’t see where he fits in, if we acquire a left fielder suck as Jermaine Dye then there wont be an opening for him for a few years unless he can learn to play third or votto can learn to play third since being a catcher before he was a first baseman he has the arm for it
Worry about playing time when it gets there. If Yonder is ready, then you can trade Dye (who you have to imagine will be puting up good numbers in GABP) and bring up Yonder, move Votto to LF and there you go.
Is Jim Callis correct about the contract stuff? Now I understand that line with Frazier. There was a great article I read on the super 2 thing earlier last year when both Longoria and Bruce were still in the minors and it basically said both were so their teams could avoid the super 2 status or whatever that is called where they get to go to arbitration earlier. With Alonso, he already signed a major league contract does that affect his super 2 status thing?
Contract stuff aside I think both could be September call ups.
In reply to Josh Smith, I think Alonso will be the first baseman no doubt. They didn’t pick Alonso as high as they did without a game plan. The easiest thing to do is move Votto to left. Anyone they pick up to play left this year should be a one year (maybe with a club option for a second year) stop gap until Alonso is ready.
It all still leads to the best solution being to propose a trade to Seattle of Francisco/Maloney for Beltre. Put Beltre at third, move EE to left, and keep Votto at first. Then when Alonso is ready trade EE. When the likes of Frazier and Soto are ready trade Beltre or allow his contract to be up (which I believe is in a couple of years).
If the long term plan for Votto is to play LF I’d go ahead and move him there and let EE play 1B until Alonso is ready in this situation. He’s probably gonna struggle out there in the begining and I’d rather it be sooner rather than later.
alonso was krivskys guy, not jocketty
so any plan they had might be out the window now…
Krivsky was long gone by the time Alonso was selected. Now yeah, the guys Krivsky put in place are responsible for drafting Alonso, but Jocketty isn’t getting rid of those guys.
Having a MLB contract does not affect your service time or arbitration status in any way. It affects your salary, your placement on the 40-man roster, and consequently your options. Thus, other than the increased salary and taking up a roster spot, the only other effect that contract has on Alonso is that he will have to stick on the ML roster by 2011 because he will be out of options.
That is not true about options. If he spends the entire year in the minors it does not count as an option. Apparently neither does Sept Call Ups based on Volquezx still having options.
If you are on the 40-man roster and spend even 1 day off the 25-man roster (i.e. in the minor leagues), then you burn an option. Each player has 3 options. Once you are out of options, you must clear waivers in order to be sent to the minor leagues.
Alonso was placed on the 40-man when he signed. Thus, he burnt one option this season. If he spends any time in the minors in 2009 and 2010, then there go his other 2 options, meaning he needs to be on the 25-man roster in 2011. There may be a rule about a player with less than 5 professional seasons getting a 4th option or something, but I’m not clear on that. Either way, options have nothing to do with Sept call-ups or arbitration.
I’m not sure what you are saying about Volquez, but if we assume he was never on the 40-man roster until he was called up in 2005, then he would have had all his options remaining entering 2006. He would have burnt an option in both 2006 and 2007 because he spent time in the minor leagues. He spent the entire seaosn last year on the 25-man roster, so he did not burn an option and thus he still has one option remaining.
People get confused between options and service time, the latter of which is directly tied to arbitration but is entirely separate from options.
Yonder did not burn an option this year. The reason is he didn’t spend 25 days in the minor leagues, so it doesn’t count as an option because he was never ’sent down’. Next year will be his first option year.
OK. I’ve never heard of that 25-day requirement. I understood it was just a matter of being on the 40-man roster and not the 25-man roster at any point in the season. I’ve never heard of this 25-day thing.
Either way, to answer the original question, the ML contract is not what would affect his potential call-up. It would be whether they want to start his service time clock or not.
If he spends the entire year in the minors on the 40-man that does not count as an option year.
The Reds could get a 4 option year if they bring him to the majors next year because this is not considered a full professional year because it is less than 90 days. So you can get 4 year if he has less than 5 yrs of professional seasons.
The one day is also wrong a player must spend 20 days in the minors to use up an option.
Volquez fell under the purchased contract rule which does not use a option.
I never said it had anything to do with arbitration.
http://www.mlb4u.com/wiki/index.php/Options
20 days, 25 days…. I was close.
Still, you are contradicting yourself there. You say he can spend an entire year on the 40 man but in the minors and it doesn’t use an option year, but then say if he is in the minors more than 20 days it uses an option. Can’t be both.
I think you are misunderstanding If a player is on the 25-man roster(playing in the majors) and is only sent down for less than twenty days it does not count as an option.
If you are in the minors all year it also does not use an option.
I think you are misunderstanding. There is no 25 man roster right now. Just a 40 man. In spring training if you are on the 40 man and are not on the DL or the 25 man roster come opening day, you are optioned to the minor leagues. That counts as an option.
Did you read the link. Yes you are optioned but it does not count as an option year as long as you spend the entire year in the minors. Same thing with the 20 day rule. The option gets recinded and you do not use an option year. That is why you do not see all guys on the 40-man recalled in September.
Never mind Maybe he does.
I’d bet Alonso is on the Reds in 2010, either out of spring training if he forces the issue or in May (i.e. Bruce) to delay the arbitration clock.
I’ll agree with that given your answer to my contract status question. Thanks for the answer.
What about with Frazier do you see him arriving at the same time as Alonso? Also do you think they will delay him until May as well (as they did with Bruce and could do with Alonso)?
I think they will come up at a very similar time because I feel they will either be up next September or April 2010.
doug what do you think about picking up Maicer Izturis? he plays exceptional defense, is fairly young and i hear is a great guy to have in the locker room. He also is versatile, and a switch hitter and has a pretty good OPS. He wouldnt cost much to get as the angels are crowded at SS, and is only making roughly 1.5 million. He also gets better at the plate with more plate appearances so can definately be a good regular, but has spent alot of his career being a utility man so if gonzo can go he could still be extremely useful. Walt said he wants to look at SS, but nothing expensive and he seems like a great fit
He can’t hit but he can field. He would likely get a slight AL to NL boost as well as a slight park boost, but really, he isn’t the type I would offer anything of value for.
i wouldn’t say he was a great hitter, but i wouldn’t say he cant hit either- his .718 OPS is pretty good especially since he hasn’t really had a starting role and the more AB’s he gets the higher that number goes up. That tell me if he got the chance to play everyday he could be a good hitter
in 2006, with 352 AB’s he posted a nice .293 AVG and a .777 OPS
and in 2007, with 336 AB’s he posted a .289 AVG and .754 OPS
those two years are the only two in which he played in over 80 games
I don’t think it would cost much to get him, maybe belisle to work in the angels pen or someone like viola, what do you think it would take to get him?
.718 OPS is downright terrible. His previous seasons were better, but no way would I give up a Viola to get him. Belisle, sure.
Doug talking about SS. They say that Walt is looking for an inexpensive SS. What do you think of trading for Clint Barmes. He had a good year at the plate. He also had a great rating from the fielding Bible at SS when he played the position. from 05-07 period he was a plus 43 which ranked third in the majors.
Personally I like it for the right price. He is a scrappy type player and he could fill the role of the #2 or #1 hitter that the Reds lineup currently lacks (Votto and Bruce have to be in the 3,4,5 range and Phillips and EE should be 6,7 types).
Would love to get him. Not sure what it would cost to get him though.