If the rumors are true, the Reds have traded Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorius for who would now be former Cleveland Indians Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald. Gregorius was moved to the Diamondbacks after this deal.
From the Reds side
Losing Drew Stubbs at this point in time isn’t a big deal. While I fully believe he is better than he showed in 2012, he isn’t exactly someone you worry about losing. Gregorius is more of a concern at this point. Zack Cozart is going into his age 27 season and has a career OBP of .290 in the Majors. That isn’t good. Gregorius projects to be better than that, perhaps even an above-average shortstop at the Major League level.
From the Indians side
Acquiring Shin-Soo Choo, the Reds add a true above-average bat to their lineup. While he struggles with lefties, he crushes righties and they make up a majority of the league. The one cause for concern is that the Reds reportedly plan to play him in center, where he has all of 10 games in his career as a soon to be 30 year old Major Leaguer. That isn’t a good sign and could significantly cause issues for the pitching staff who will have to throw more pitches and fewer innings because of it. Choo does represent a huge offensive upgrade at the position though. With Jason Donald it is interesting. He has hit in the minor leagues and shown good plate discipline. In the Majors? Not so much. Over the last two seasons in the Majors he has 12 walks and 75 strikeouts. That is Juan Francisco bad. He could be a back up, but showing the plate discipline he has shown in the minors would actually give him value. With what he has shown in the Majors over the last two seasons, he probably doesn’t have any value to the team at the Major League level.
I like the deal, but I don’t love the deal. The Reds gave up a lot for a one year rental of a very good baseball player.
I will update this if any of the rumors change.
i personally like him alot better than Wilson Valdez. I dont know how good Donald is at the defensive side of things tho. anyone care to enlighten me? also he can play multiple positions which is a plus.
Offensively, at least in the Majors, he hasn’t really done anything that says he is better than Valdez. Defensively, older BA reports say he is more suited for 2B than SS, but that tells me he can cover SS when you need him to every now and again.
Tells me Burris makes the team to take Valdez spot. Donnel takes Cairo’s
Do the Reds get a pick if they offer Choo a qualifying offer? I know you don’t get one for midseason trades but wondering about this situation. If they get the pick (and as importantly, the slot money) I love this deal.
Reds would get a pick if they make the qualifying offer. Usually its a risky proposition to offer it to anyone but the top players, but since Choo is a Boras client there is a good chance he’ll decline it. It’ll be interesting to see what the Reds decide to do next off season if this trade goes through
As Ron noted, if they make the offer, they will get the pick. Unless Choo completely bombs, they will make the offer.
Getting him before the season starts, I think Choo would be eligible for draft compensation, right? And if he has the kind of season the Reds hope, making him a one-year qualifying offer would be pretty low-risk. If that holds true, it’s one year of Choo + a comp pick, which with the way the Reds draft makes this a really good trade in my opinion. I like it even without possible compensation. With it, it’s a no-brainer.
There’s at least a chance that the Reds get Choo a longer deal. Maybe it’s less than 20%, but it exists. The Reds have traded for several players recently who later signed extensions. Not to mention the Votto and Phillips deals, which both surprised me at least. I might be underestimating the Boras factor, but the Reds have been good at keeping the free agents they want to keep (even if fans sometimes disagree).
The idea of Choo in LF batting ahead of Votto with Hamilton is so enticing that I think Walt will at least try to make it happen.
The timing would also be close. Ludwick going and Hamilton coming. Like Doug mentioned earlier, he is a Boros client, so that could complicate things. Also, we need to wait and see how well he performs for the Reds. He will be changing leagues and facing new pitchers. That could be a challenge at least to start.
I’ve heard the Rockies are also involved, with Fowler coming to Reds and Choo to Rockies, but Leake going to Rockies as well.
What! My head hurts… Can we get Fowler, Choo, and Bruce to be our outfield this year? I’d like that best.
I don’t know how I feel about Choo versus Fowler. If you check Fowler’s stats, his only really good year with the bat was this past season. That could mean he is just taking off, but Choo is more proven with a series of good years with the bat. We would have control of Fowler much longer which offsets some of the sting of losing Didi. Then when Hamilton arrives, we have 2 lead off hitters. I guess Fowler could be traded at that point.
They would at least have more control of Fowler and he would definitely play better defense.
Not true … Choo and Donald are Reds. Done deal per John Fay
Maybe Choo will play well enough that the Reds will extend him and eventually move him to LF. If not, we will get the draft pick.
Agreed. Cuz you know Boras usually turns down qualifying offers.
The Indians have tried extending him and he wants no part of it.
Maybe he will be open for an extension with a winning club. Cleveland sucks. i would gladly sign a two or three year extension
Boras client. Not likely.
A lot of others have wanted to stay with the Reds. Marshall, Broxton and Ludwick. Cueto, Votto and Bruce
resigning. I agree though, Boros could throw a kink in things.
Guys don’t sign with Boras to sign with teams like Cincinnati.
Do you think the Reds being a winning team might change his mind? Again, Walt uses a good, but blocked, young player to improve the team. Grandal, Alonso, Sappelt, Wood and now Didi. If the Reds want a SS who can play great defense but not necessarily hit(for a bench player), what about Rojas. He can’t hit, but he can flat out play SS. Do we still have him?
Rojas signed with the Dodgers as free agent.
Diamondbacks get Didi.
With Choo and Bruce, we have two great outfield arms.
Didi’s minor league numbers closely resemble Pokey Reese. In my heart of hearts, I preferred Cozart. I’m just not convinced Didi’s offensive floor is as solid as Cozart. I mean, a slight upgrade to Cozart’s walk rate and we’re talking an above average SS……and it’s not like he’s bad now, simply middle of the pack. On a team like this, that’s plenty.
Pokey Reese in todays game, at least the guy from 99-02, is an above-average shortstop when you consider all facets of his game. He just happened to play in an era where shortstops all hit like Tulo. In that time frame, Reese was basically Cozart, with a little more OBP and a little less pop to go with better defense.
I like DiDi, and I kept wanting to not like the deal because of losing him… but Choo gives us a legit top of the lineup bat, and I think he makes this team much better in 2013. DiDi may turn out to be much better than Cozart in the end, but any other outfielder of Choo’s quality would have cost far more than that, so I’m pretty happy with it. Dexter Fowler wasn’t walking through that door this cheaply, and neither was Span or Revere. I like the move–makes the team much better this year. Hopefully Cozart will continue to improve and we can worry about 2014 a year from now, while we’re savoring a World Series victory!
Oh, and I wish Stubbs the best. Hopefully the change of scenery will do him good. I will not miss his flailing and hopeless at bats.
The General has his marching orders and is no more. The Choo Choo has arrived…………..sorry from Chattanooga couldn’t resist and had to get that one in for Duke one last time.
I like the deal for Choo. Indians are throwing in money as well so that the Reds are not taking on any additional salary. I like Donald better than Valdez too, so I think that is a slight bench upgrade. I still think Stubbs has value and hopefully will turn it around in a new environment. With Donald being able to play anywhere, I wonder if they now look to bring Rolen back. I think I’d rather see them get another lefty with pop for that last spot (not Burriss).