JJ Cooper posted his Baseball America Top 10 list for the Cincinnati Reds today. Their list and my list share 9 players, with their list having Tucker Barnhart (who I ranked 13th) and my list having Jon Moscot (their list only goes to 10, we will have to wait until the BA Handbook comes out to figure out where he ranked for them).

In the best tools list, the usual names are up there with it mostly being top prospects. Cory Thompson, 5th rounder from 2013, shows up listed with the best infield arm on their list. As a pitcher in high school he could throw in the 90’s, so it isn’t a surprise that his arm is strong.

After reading the list and the scouting reports that came with it, I think the list is pretty good (we do share 9 of the 10 same guys on our list) and the information matches up pretty well with what I have with only smaller differences.

C. Trent Rosecrans has up an article at the Enquirer on the list, and it also includes the Top 15 players under 25 in the organization. That list would imply the Jeremy Kivel, Ismael Guillon and Daniel Corcino are ranked 11-13th on their list. Kivel and Corcino make sense. Guillon being ranked that highly gets a bit confusing for me though. His stuff is good, but it isn’t elite. Add in that he walked 95 batters in 121 innings in Low-A and he is that high just gets confusing with me. There are guys with better stuff ranked lower than him who didn’t walk a guy per inning. That is my one question that I saw from it all.

27 Responses

  1. MK

    I can’t disagree with much of what they said. However I would say Seth Mejias-Brean would be my choice for Best Defensive Infielder over Tanner Rahier. I think since he was forced to play first base a lot it worked against him.

    I like Tucker alsot and do not disagree with #10. Do you think they have him rated higher than you because he is on top of the catchers position in the organization?

    • Doug Gray

      I ranked Travis Mattair as the best defensive infielder in my rankings. SMB was right there with him. Rahier is also darn good. Vidal, at least in the past was as well (I didn’t get a chance to see much of him this year). All are very good.

      With Barnhart, it is just likely a matter of small preference. He is in the area where you could swap him out with a few other guys around him and there isn’t really much of a difference other than the number listed next to his name.

    • RobL

      In regards to Tucker, I think he makes the top 10 not because he is the Reds’ #1 catcher, but because he really looks like a contributor on a ML team.

      There is a lot of Hanigan in Barnhart. Above average behind the plate, takes walks and keeps the K’s respectable. Also, very little power with no projection. But he does switch hit, which is a plus.

      With all the questions about guys behind him, Tucker seems like a guy who’s floor is his ceiling. And that floor is being a part of a big league roster and a key position.

      • Doug Gray

        He switch hits in the sense that he stands on both sides of the plate. He is a really, really, really poor hitter from the right side. He has 0 career home runs from the right side and has hit well under .200 as a RHH in his career. I openly wonder if it is time to cut ties on that and just have him to lefty on lefty at this point.

      • The Duke

        Barnhart has been far better hitting left handed for two straight years now. That works out pretty well opposite of Mesoraco, but just because you can switch hit, didn’t necessarily mean you should. The Pena contract is nice as it will allow us to give Barnhart two years in AAA and have a respectable option if one if the guys on the big club goes down. It seems like most years the Reds need that third catcher at some point, often times fir a decent stretch of time.

  2. RobL

    Guillon is Jekyll and Hyde. He has shown for two seasons that he is a top level prospect. And for two seasons, he has shown a complete inability to find the plate. The problem is that you can’t really take anything away from that because the seasons don’t happen back to back. The only thing constant is his ability to rack-up Ks. If he is able to shake off Hyde for good, then you have at least a number 3 pitcher. And if he can only keep a leash on Hyde, he will be a good reliever. I do grant you that Hyde could just eat Jekyll and he never makes it to Louisville.

  3. WallyP

    I like the article JJ is pretty dead on Rob as far as your comments I echo your sentiments. I want to add only that I like Manno much more the Guillon and Hyde. Frome the world baseball classic to his numbers since turning pro, Manno is a hard guy to put your finger on but he has this X factor that just seems t put him above these other lefties. He will never make a baseball america Top whatever because he is not a flame thrower, but I watched him in big league games last year in spring training and he was nasty. Manny Parra after one game spoke to us about him, and Manny said he loves this kid and his make-up , and Parra used a phrase and said he does not hit bats and is under the radar.

    • MK

      Don’t believe he meant Lee Hyde. He was making a literary analogy.

      As far as Guilon and Manno comparisons, that is apples and oranges. Other than being left handed their isn’t much to compare.

  4. Randy in Chatt

    Of the top 15 under 25:
    4 outfielders (good)
    2 catchers (great)
    9 pitchers (great)
    0 infielders (yikes!)

  5. WallyP

    MK I am laughing at myself big time If you can not laugh at yourself then life is not fun Thank you man I am crying I am laughing so hard. Mk please let me know what you mean on the comparison to Manno and Guillon.

  6. 44reds


    Supposedly Matt Kemp is available. Has his value dropped enough that we could get him? Would he fit into our payroll? He seems like a great buy-low candidate that could fill CF until BHam is ready and then slide over to left. He would also give us a legit 4 hitter and a RH bat. What kind of package do you think it would take? How about Phillips/Hannigan and a B level prospect?

    • Doug Gray

      He doesn’t fit into the budget. He is owed $21M a year for the next 6 years.

  7. Mel

    44 reds Man I love that deal. I think if they can pull that off it would be great.

  8. Mel

    Wally I have spent a great deal of time laughing at you(only kidding)
    saw what you said about Guilon and manno. Be careful , they might run you out of town and say you have jumped on my bandwagon. I happen to like Guilon very much and think he has a very nice future, but what you said about Manno, I have said for two years. No need for me to repeat myself, if given the chance , manno is going to be a very nice MLB player

    • Stock

      I’m with MK big time on this one. If Guillon could regain his control he will be a ML pitcher. Maybe only a RP but a ML. Manno almost surely will never be in Cincinnati.

      Best case scenario: Manno is the 7th man out of the bullpen.
      Probable scenario: Manno never pitches in GABP

      He is 25 years old. He struggled with his control and gave up more HR than he should.

      Pitchers who pitched for Pensacola this year who I feel will be better out of the pen than Manno include:

      Crabbe, Partch, Contreras, Josh Smith, Rogers (if he is moved there) Lorenzen (if he is moved there) and Trevor Bell.

      That makes him the 6th – 8th best RP who pitched for Pensacola last year.

      • MK

        I didn’t mean to let people think I am anti Manno. My point is to compare a control pitching reliever to a hard throwing younger starter is like comparing a first baseman to a shortstop.

  9. JH

    Cooper’s assessment is strikingly insightful. Best overall analysis from a national voice that I’ve seen. His comment of Hamilton to 2nd base is what I’ve been thinking for a while (but was afraid to say). It would take some pressure off his bat and still put his speed in the lineup. His struggles at ss were largely an arm issue–certainly not range. Maybe 2nd is the place for him, but is it wise to move him defensively in back-to-back years?

    • Doug Gray

      Hamilton had arm issues, but they weren’t arm strength issues, so moving to second with a shorter throw isn’t exactly a fix for those issues. That is really my biggest issue with that whole plan of moving Hamilton to second base. I wouldn’t move him. He plays a position of need, so moving him doesn’t exactly fill a hole.

  10. Mel

    I love this sight and please people do not take me as confrontational. I just enjoy a good debate and never and I mean never mean any disrespect. I am a pro scout for over 39 years. I can read you my resume, but I would bore you all to death. Baseball is my life, sometimes I think to much of my life. Wally you are way to laid back. If you have a strong opinion let these guys know how you feel. God knows I have not made many friends on this sight. But all kidding aside. I would like to address some of the points that our friend stock and mk made. (1) Manno throws 89-91 and has a + change up. Mk you can very much compare Manno and Guilon. In fact they are a very good comparison. Guilon is younger so I always have give him the benefit of the doubt that he will get better, I watched him for about 12 innings this year. I like him but he breaks down mechanically . He really has a hard time repeating. Saying that the ball comes out of his hand very nice and he has a very nice change . Now I dont want to spend my evening talking about Manno. Doug and company knows how much I like him. I just want to say why in a couple of sentences. (1) At the Rookie,low A and High A, he was one of the best pitchers I scouted out of the pen in years. That says al ot because I have seen some very good pitchers. I will not read you his stats, just go look them up. Brian Daubach who coached him in Hagerstown wrote me a not about him and told me that this kid is outstanding on and off the field. He now at the AA level as done very well. Stock you are correct I want to see him cut down his BB and it is unlike him to give up the long ball, but you are correct. He had a very difficult first half of this year and I wanted to see how he would react after his bad first half. His numbers were excellent the second half and to me as a old timer, that was a major test for him. Now Stock you are correct he is 25 and has to make a move soon. Smart young Man from Duke, who will not be a career minor league player, has had success throughout his pro career, He even pitched exceptional in the world baseball classic. Stock, Crabbe, Partch, Contreras, Josh Smith, Rogers Lorenzen and Trevor Bell are all RHP. I understand your point but respectfully disagree. When a pro team makes up a bullpen, Manno’s left arm means something.

    Guys I do not have a crystal ball, and all I can give you is my honest view as a scout and as a new yorker who really likes this young man. I have been honest about my bias toward a fellow NY kid. In the Pensacola pen this year Manno and Hyde in the second half were by far the best pitchers. Bell and Walzack were outstanding also.

    I want a quality lefty in my pen, In fact I really want two. Stock may be right, he may never pitch a MLB game for the reds, but to say he never pitches a MLB inning will be proven wrong. I strongly believe he has the make-up to be a solid relief pitcher in the bigs

  11. Jim Delaney

    I think Hamilton should go to spring training with multiple gloves, Reds team and window is still open to having chance to win next season. Reds are a better team with Hamilton on team coming off bench as a super sub at multiple positions. You get him 300-350 at bats playing him at 2B, SS, 3B and CF and u have his speed on bench which might win you two or three games as a pinch runner. Also by doing this you can see if Hamilton could project back as an infielder and if so, what position he looks most comfortable at. I look at Hamilton’s floor as Emilio Bonafacio and ceiling as a Bip Roberts type. Speed first players who are position multi faceted will have longer staying power. Hopefully the Reds front office agrees I think they will hurt the major league teams chances this season if they have Hamilton back at AAA.

  12. WallyP

    Mel You just never learn. I understand you passion and totally am with you about this young man’s talent. But your post should be limited to a twitter like answer. You may not understand that, so if you see me in the elevator, I will explain this to you. I can vouch fpr this old bugger. He is a very well know scout who certainly can teach us all about this game, but he if you ask him what time it is , he will tell you how to make a watch. I agree with you about Manno , I like him very much and certainly think he has a place in the big leagues soon but stop preaching about this kid, some may think you are his agent
    be well old friend

  13. Daryl

    I stole this from minorleagueball.com but thought others here may like to read and know this.

    The purpose of Lorenzen being here is to “learn how to be a starter.”
    It’s no coincidence the Glendale pitching coach is Tom Browning.

    On days where Lorenzen didn’t pitch or have chart duties, he and Browning would make the short drive out to Goodyear and he’d work out at the complex with some of the Reds’ players who live here during the off-season, including Mike Leake.

    This is a kid who was primarily a position player as an amateur with some closing experience and who made one start in 22 minor league appearances after signing.

    His line here is awful, but the Reds knew he’d struggle. His progression through the system last year was by design, he should start where he left off next season but in the rotation, and I’d bet he ends the 2014 season in Cincinnati’s rotation.

    The Reds have compared him internally to Homer Bailey..plus fastball/slider combo, struggled to develop an average third pitch with command issues.

    It’s reasonable.

    • Doug Gray

      I am willing to bet that there is almost no chance at all that Lorenzen winds up in the MLB rotation in 2014. He needs to build up innings. He needs to drastically improve his third pitch. He needs to improve his control. He is likely going to start in A-ball, either Dayton or Bakersfield. He then would need to jump ahead of a guy like Stephenson on the depth chart, as well as have multiple injuries open up a spot in Cincinnati for him. I just can’t see all of those things happening. It would literally have to be a “perfect storm” scenario for him.

      • The Duke

        I’d start him in Dayton. Build him up in a more pitcher friendly environment than the 354 ft CF wall of Sam Lynn ballpark.

  14. WallyP

    love when a organization invest in their beliefs mike is gonna be just fine