The offseason for the Cincinnati Reds continues to be one of a lot of big talk. We will have to wait and see if there’s any big action. This morning, Jon Morosi of MLB Network reported that the Cincinnati Reds are open to a blockbuster trade with the Indians for Corey Kluber or Trevor Bauer.

This isn’t the first time that we’ve heard that the Reds were interested in Corey Kluber. Obviously they are interested – every team in baseball should be interested. He’s one of the best pitchers alive right now and has a good contract. This is the first time we have heard that Cincinnati was interested in Trevor Bauer. Of course, like Kluber, he’s one of the best pitchers alive and every team should be interested.

In both cases it would take a big return to get either pitcher back. Eugenio Suarez should be off of the table if you’re only getting back one pitcher and nothing else in the deal. But everyone else in the organization should probably be on the table. Kluber’s posted a 2.58 ERA in 418.2 innings over the last two seasons. He’s owed a whole lot of money, $17M in 2019, $17.5M in 2020 ($1M buyout), and $18M in 2021 ($1M buyout). But, for what you are getting on the mound, he’s worth every penny.

Trevor Bauer hasn’t been as good. Last year was his real breakout. In previous years he had always teased with his talent, but had never posted an ERA better than 4.19 in his four full seasons. In 2018 though, he took a big step forward and posted a 2.21 ERA in 175.1 innings. That came with 57 walks and 221 strikeouts, while he gave up just nine home runs. He’s under contract for two more seasons, but the prices aren’t quite known as he’s in his arbitration years. MLB Trade Rumors believes he’s going to get $11.6M for 2019. He’ll get more than that in 2020 before reaching free agency.

Corey Kluber seems to fit a little better due to the fact that he has an extra year of control. When looking at the Cincinnati Reds organization it seems that three years could be when everything could come together. The only thing that makes Trevor Bauer a potentially better fit is that he would be cheaper in both acquisition cost, and in future salary. The two years of team control makes it a little more risky.

Both pitchers, however, would instantly improve the rotation. And hopefully would only be move one of multiple moves still to be made. Having the Reds add just one pitcher, even if it were one as good as either of these two guys, likely isn’t going to be enough to push them into contention in 2019.

DALTON AND GREEN IN 2018 T SHIRT

87 Responses

    • Colorado Red

      For Kluber, I would give up Senzel or Greene or Trammel, but two of them.\
      Would also have to include Iggy or lot more.

      Reply
    • Alan

      “I still don’t give up Senzel or Greene, grudgingly Trammel”

      Why? Senzel’s in the process of being jerked all over the field position-wise, and has yet to show that he can stay healthy for any lengthy stretch. Greene has “Tommy John” written all over him, even if it’s not happening quite yet. Top prospects rarely become as good as Kluber has been for years or as good as Bauer was last season. That’s why I don’t understand the “Trade Suarez and roll with Senzel!” crowd. If the Reds are extremely lucky, Senzel will become as good as Suarez already is. Given the aforementioned issues, that could even require a bit more than extreme good luck.

      The larger point remains, though. If there’s only one move for a pitcher to be made, that won’t make the Reds contenders.

      Reply
      • kevinz

        I like Suarez as much as the next guy. He has had one good to great season though. Frazier had a similar type year around same age then fell off.
        Not saying Suarez will but i will not bet against it. Senzel if Healthy would be much more Versatile player than Suarez is.

    • Mike V

      Don’t trade any of the above .. Buy a free agent pitcher to help out next season and think “long term” on everything else . Its the only way to possibly build any long term success PERIOD.

      Reply
  1. Mark

    Get one stud pitcher like these guys from Cleveland, sign Soria for the bullpen and put Lorenzen as 4th or 5th starter. Trade Gennett maybe to Cleveland to replace the aging 2B they have now, put Senzel at 2B and sign Adam Jones to 2 year Deal. Draft the best OF – CF specific prospect you can get with your #1 pick this year.

    Reply
      • KSoze

        I think Gennett could bring back Gray from the Yankees, but not a 1, 2, or 3.

  2. Brad Legg

    I like Bauer because of value and money. Kluber is a better pitcher but he will cost 2 of your top 3.

    Reply
  3. The Jokes on us

    The conversation in the reds front office?

    “ Let’s keep our name in the news as much as possible without doing anything. Let’s lead these fools I mean fans to believe we’re gonna pull some big trade. Then we’ll wait till the last game of spring training to pick up a big name “has been”. The fact they think we’re gonna do anything is ridiculous .”

    Reply
    • Stock

      Agreed. I think they are paving the way for a response of “we tried”. They want us to believe they are dedicated to winning when in fact they are not.

      Soria is a prime example. How is Soria an upgrade on what we have in the bullpen. The Reds are going to talk about winning all winter and wind up with Soria, Harvey and Gio Gonzalez. They will sign players that actually weaken the team. Players smart teams like the Astros are not even considering.

      Iglesias, Hernandez, Hughes, Lorenzen, Garrett and Wisler are better assets than Soria. I think Romano plays much better in the bullpen and can take the 7th spot.

      Soria and Gio would be huge mistakes so I fully expect the Reds to sign them.

      The Reds have three solid SP at this point. Castillo is a TOR type of pitcher. DeSclafani is a solid #3. Reed is a solid #5. Bauer would join Castillo. Happ would be the equal of DeSclafani. If the Reds actually acquired quality players I would be excited. Just don’t think they will

      Reply
      • Doug Gray

        Let’s talk this out….

        How does Soria downgrade this pitching staff? He posted a 3.12 ERA last year with 16 walks and 75 strikeouts. That’s an ERA as good as Michael Lorenzen’s, but with peripherals that are significantly better. On zero planets is Matt Wisler a better asset than Soria. If you want to say he’s not worth the money you think he will get, that’s a very different thing than saying he’d weaken the team.

        Matt Harvey was the Reds 2nd best starter by ERA last year. While I certainly hope he’s not their second best starter next year, bringing him back doesn’t weaken the team.

        And while I’d agree that DeSclafani could be a #3, last year he posted an ERA of 4.93. That’s a #5.

        There’s a big difference between what someone could be, and what they should be expected to be. Joakim Soria should be expected to outperform most of the guys in the bullpen that the Reds will have next year that we know of. Matt Harvey should be expected to outperform more than a few of the pitchers in the rotation if the Reds don’t bring others in. They aren’t downgrades to the team as it’s currently constructed.

      • Stock

        First when I say weaken the team it includes the financial aspect because signing someone like Soria reduces opportunity to sign a difference maker.

        Why is Soria a bad signing?

        First he is entering his age 35 season and will not produce like he has in the past. Second, he is a fly ball pitcher. That worked well in KC and the very weak AL Central. But lets look at the stats.

        Soria had a 4.5 ERA in Miller Park.
        Soria had a very good 4.33 K/BB ratio as a Brewer.
        Soria has two things going for him. A great FB and great command. Per Fangraphs his only + pitch is his FB. His 4.33 K/BB ratio is a tribute to his command.
        His FB lost 0.5 MPH last year and I expect this trend to continue considering his age. A loss of velocity is okay when your secondary pitches can make up for it. But last year neither of his secondary pitches were + pitches.

        I think in a park such as GABP Soria’s ERA will rise by at 0.75 to 1.50 in 2019 and even more as his FB loses velocity, which he will considering his age.

        Now on to Wisler. His stuff played up with the move to the pen which should not be unexpected. His 7.43 K/9 IP is much lower than you would expect with a Swing K % of 12%. But his K/BB ratio of 5.5 is excellent and better than Soria. His two best pitches (Curve and Slider) produced a 19.3% swinging K% a RP. Hopefully he will use these two pitches more often next year ala Corbin last year and McCullers the year before. It would not surprise me to see his K/9 soar above 9 next year

        As for Harvey, he is what he is. A bottom of the rotation pitcher who does not represent an upgrade for the Reds if they plan to compete. I think Castillo, Reed and DeSclafani will be better in 2019. I do not mind if Harvey and Reed are number 4 and number 5 next year. I just have the feeling that they will be #3 and #4. If you truly plan to compete a rotation of Castillo, DeSclafani, Harvey, Reed and Sims or Stephenson doesn’t work.

      • Doug Gray

        Stock, I think you underestimate how hitter friendly Miller Park is if you think simply moving to GABP is going to boost his ERA by 0.75-1.50.

        The reality is, he should be expected to be about the same guy that he was last year overall, unless you know something that the rest of us don’t about his health.

    • Colorado Red

      Time will tell.
      They are already doing things differently, else they would have signed Billy to a long term extension.
      Also, I think Bob realized that another year and 90+ loses, and the fan base is gone.

      Reply
    • Doug Gray

      And that plan that you just laid out is how you lose every last single person still buying tickets. They aren’t that stupid no matter how dumb you actually think they are.

      They are actually trying to get things done. Whether they can is a different story. But to believe this is all just for show is to literally believe they’ve got the intelligence of a 6th grader.

      Reply
      • burtgummer

        Saying ownership and the front office has the intelligence of a 6th grader is a compliment
        Ownership has lied to the fans before why wouldn’t he do it again?
        The losing stops now !
        Championship baseball will return to Cincinnati !
        More like enjoy the stay in last place while the money keeps flowing into ownerships pockets

    • Tom Seaver

      Agree with that comment – especially since the Reds have been prone to dumpster diving for so long. So just give Reds fans the false hope of bringing back a quality pitcher or two – and then DO NOTHING (has Cincinnati really fallen that far off the professional sports teams map Reds and Bengals)?

      Reply
  4. scottya

    I’d rather have Syndergaard or others, but maybe Bauer can be had at not too great of a prospect cost. I wonder if some combination of the following?? Garrett, Mahle, Lorenzen, Hughes, Hernandez, Schebler, Long, Siri, Downs.

    I have no idea, but if we can add someone of nice value to our rotation from any of these mlb players or prospects, I’d go for it.

    Reply
    • stock

      In order to get quality you have to give up quality. None of the players you listed are difference makers.

      Reply
      • KSoze

        Long, and Downs are nice prospects, but they would need to be paired with Trammell or Green, to bring in Syndergaard + another prospect of less impact.

    • scottya

      I was referring to players that could be used to build a trade offer for Bauer not for Syndergaard. That is going to require more and likely quite a bit more than for Bauer.

      Reply
      • Stock

        I am not sure there is much difference in trade value between Bauer and Syndergaard. I know Syndergaard’s injury history scares me and this may for the most part neutralize the additional year of control.

      • Redsfan48

        The key difference between Bauer and Syndergaard is that the Indians still plan to win now. Thus, a bullpen piece like Hughes or Garrett could make a big difference to them. Maybe including one of them allows you to avoid parting with one of the top 3 prospects and trade a couple of 5-10 range prospects instead.

    • Hunt4redsoct

      I think with the trade Mets made they won’t be moving any of their top of the line starters.

      Reply
      • Doug Gray

        Their GM came out today and said it’s unlikely they are moving guys now because they think they can compete.

      • redwolf

        Torres replaces Romano in value
        opens up 2nd for Senzel
        Greene is no guarantee ( power high school arm already nicked up)
        Iggy is a lot to give up, but, we have to add value to a trade to get an Ace.

    • MK

      I think if they could have gotten anything for Gennett they would have done it last trade deadline. His arm strength and mechanics of throwing makes second base the only place he cab play regularly. For the money he is going to make, teams want an elite defensive second baseman.

      Reply
  5. AirborneJayJay

    Kluber would make a better choice than Bauer. Bauer has stated that he wants to work on 1 year contracts only when his 2 years of arbitration are up. One one hand that is smart for Bauer to maximize his yearly value. On the other hand, the Reds might be able to get a 3rd year out of him this way, but that 3td year would be at top dollar. That makes Kluber a bit more of a target.
    Syndergaard would be easier on the wallet and would be about the same prospect package to obtain. Both CLEV and NYM both want a couple of ML ready players and prospects.

    Reply
  6. Alex Reds

    The Reds have to identify the right pitcher to trade for. You will have to overpay, so you can’t miss or have someone that can underperform; injury is always a risk.

    I also think the Reds can look for a pitcher that is signed for only one or two more years.. BUT only if they can trade for an agree to an extension before the trade is complete. I’d even venture offering $25M a year, possibly even $30M-$35M a year if they are a top 10 pitcher overall to add extra years to the deal. The extra years of control are very important as the Reds window won’t be for another 2-3 years anyways.

    Reply
  7. kevinz

    No thanks. Let Johnson do his work before trading the Farms top Players.
    Castillo will be our Severino from the Yanks. Mahle will be our Davies from Brewers.

    Reply
    • SteveO

      I totally agree. Give Johnson 2019 to work with our top pitching prospects. Use the extra $$ to sign a FA pitcher. A pitcher with $20M/yr max(Keuchel) or a little less of (Happ, Eovaldi)or 2 equaling $20M/yr (Kikuchi, Harvey, Sanchez, Gonzalez, Holland) and sign Pollock for 4/$60-64M. Trade Scooter for a couple of good pitching prospects and Senzel starts at 2B. Hopefully, the Reds add Martin in the rule 5 and he is on the bench as a backup middle infielder along with Ervin, Casali and Blandino.

      Reply
      • Doug Gray

        You can’t trade Scooter for ONE good pitching prospect. If they could, they would have done so a long time ago.

      • SteveO

        I disagree. Not the way he was playing after the way the Reds got him. Senzel was not near ready yet and Scooter was producing. The Reds thought they had some pitching prospects near ready. I’m not sure what your definition of a long time ago is and for me good prospects are not necessarily near mlb ready prospects. They could be in the A-AA level.

      • redleggingfordayz

        They literally tried to trade him all last season SteveO, and no one wanted to throw back anything of value. Why would that have suddenly changed in the last 3 months? The fact of the matter is that the Reds (and our fans) value Scooter much higher than the rest of the league does. If you want to argue that is fair\unfair, fine, but that doesn’t change the end result. He is an above average hitter and a below average defender at 2B.

      • Doug Gray

        There just isn’t a market for Scooter Gennett. The Reds have tried trading him for the last year and a half and the offers simply haven’t been remotely good. The problem is, teams haven’t needed him, and now there’s also a whole lot of second basemen on the market in free agency.

        Whether any of us like it or not, he’s not valuable to other teams and is probably far more valuable on the field to the Reds than he is in trade value to anyone else.

  8. Cincinnati was....

    Some of you commentors have suggested some of the dumbest trades. Somebody giving up Gennett, Greene, Iggy, and Romano? You don’t give that up unless it’s the best pitcher in the league with a track record. Why are you guys so desperate? It’s insane. You give up that much, you need more than Kluber.

    This is why teams like the Yankees screw us so badly on trades. The front office is just as bad as you guys. First off, I wouldn’t you’d want to build a deep veteran bullpen with more that one lefty? That’s where the stregnth is. You just need capable starters to go 6 innings then you give it to the pen. Like 1990. Go get Stroman and dallas keuchel. That all you need.

    Reply
    • Doug Gray

      You know, for someone telling other people how dumb they are, suggesting the team go out and get a guy who posted a 5.54 ERA last year and saying that’s half of “all you need” is one heck of a hot take my man.

      Reply
  9. AlphaZero

    I don’t really feel like there’s a good match here. I’d give Greene or Trammell as a centerpiece for Kluber, but I sense that the Indians are trying to rebuild on the fly and want the primary return to be someone who is ready to play now. I’m not willing to trade Senzel at this time unless the return is absolutely overwhelming, so I’m not sure how well this would work.

    Reply
  10. Jasonp

    We need better starting pitching but I think what is being ignored is that we also need better offense.

    We scored 696 runs last year. The Cubs scored 761 and the Brewers scored 764. The other teams that are around our number of runs scored were about even in wins and losses. So to win the division or get a wild card spot we also need to get better at offense.

    If we trade Senzel and/or Trammell for pitching we are not going to have any top end hitters close enough to being ready to boost the offense up to what is needed to win 90 games.

    Replacing Hamilton will help the offense. Gennett is just signed for one more year and will be 29 before the start of this year. Not sure even we did sign him long term if he would keep hitting into his 30’s. I don’t know if Votto will be better next year or not but he isn’t going to be the hitter he was when he was younger.

    So we really do need other hitters to make up for what we may loose. The Reds will not have the money to fix these issues if we spend it now on pitching. We will need players that are young, cheap, and good no matter if it is pitchers or hitters.

    Reply
    • Doug Gray

      Assuming what Paul Daugherty heard was true, the Reds have $30M-ish to spend this year (not sure if that included non-money due to Hamilton or not), but they’ve got another $25M or so freed up after 2019, too. So there are definitely options to improve pitching and offense moving forward.

      Reply
      • rhayex

        Can you imagine if the Reds spend 30M this year and then next year cry poor because “Homer’s contract was accounted for the year prior”? I’d be furious.

      • Jasonp

        Kind of my point. If we have money now to spend why not get pitching with it in free agency. If we trade off our hitting prospects this year, we might not have money down the road to get the hitting we need after spending money this year. Part of spending 25 mil next year will be for resigning Gennett or replacing him. If we don’t have Senzel anymore.

    • Stock

      I anticipate a major increase in production in LF with Winker for a full season and CF. I also anticipate an upgrade in production from Votto. With this we should see a level of performance that should negate the run advantage of the Cubs and Brewers.

      Hopefully Schebler will be healthy and better also.

      Reply
  11. Tom

    They need OF and 2b. I’d lead with Winker and Gennett and finish with Santillan and another arm in the 15-30 range.

    Reply
  12. Jim Delaney

    My biggest concerns are with the FRONT OFFICE and Ownership, I don’t think they have a plan for 2019 and the future. They made the right decision in going in new direction with a Manager and coaching staff BUT they needed to go further and hire a NEW President of Baseball Operations. The current President is tied to minority owners of the team and the President’s background is in BANKING NOT BASEBALL… While other small and mid market clubs have hired strong young minds who have been involved in BASEBALL for years, the REDS have a BANKER mining the store for the minority owners to make sure they receive there fair share of profits… I definitely don’t believe the REDS ownership statement they are trying to be a CASH neutral business and all profits are invested into the organization… If this were true WHY won’t they open there books?

    Reply
    • Doug Gray

      Dick Williams worked in the front office for like 9 years before he got promoted to GM. The guys that finally turned Tampa around weren’t baseball people. Andrew Friedman worked for Bear Stearns and then a private equity firm before joining the Rays. The guy that got the Red Sox out of their curse? He was an American Studies graduate from Yale and a graduate of law school.

      The only team in baseball that opens their books is the Braves. And it’s because they literally have to by law because they are owned by a publicly traded company.

      Reply
    • redlegs4ever

      Haha I was looking for this comment, one of only about 2 things I can really chastise Walt for because I thought it was a bad deal at the time. That and the BP extension…

      Reply
      • GAffer

        Choo was pretty darn good, but only one year. They also lost value by playing him in center.

      • redlegs4ever

        I know what Walt was trying to do, the Reds needed an upgrade on the offensive end for 2013, I just woulda found it at 3B.

        And I know the Reds were in a win now, but it never looks good to be involved in a trade including Trevor Bauer and not be the team acquiring Trevor Bauer.

      • reaganspad

        You can only chastise Walt about 2 things….

        I got a list

    • Optimist

      Just went back and looked at that, and found that Tony Sipp is a FA. Could he be an old cheap LOOGY? Has an interesting record and an impressive career considering his record. Still, a worrisome HR rate.

      Reply
  13. The Duke

    Give me Kluber. Yes, he’s older (33 in April), but he’s under contract for 3 more seasons at bargain prices for his talent, has been waaaaaaaay more durable than Bauer, and we won’t have to worry about another contract. Bauer has 2 seasons before free agency, has cost uncertainty, and will undoubtedly be looking to be a FA after 2020 to the highest bidder. Kluber has 5 years over 200 IP. Bauer hasn’t thrown over 190, and has been at 175 the past 2 years.

    I’d try to swing something like this:

    Tony Santillan
    Jonathan India
    Vlad Gutierrez
    Shed Long

    But honestly, I don’t think we get even an older Kluber without one of our top 3

    Hunter Greene
    Vlad Gutierrez
    Shed Long
    Jeter Downs

    If we’re getting Kluber now, then the window is now. Keep Senzel and get his bat in the lineup. Senzel plays CF in 2019, moves to 2B in 2020 after Scooter gets paid by someone else in FA and Trammell takes over CF. Make that trade, then go sign a #2 on the FA market since Kluber only costs $13-$15 million. Sign Soria too and call it an offseason.

    1. Nick Senzel, CF
    2. Jesse Winker, LF
    3. Joey Votto, 1B
    4. Eugenio Suarez, 3B
    5. Scooter Gennett, 2B
    6. Scott Schebler, RF
    7. Jose Peraza, SS
    8. Tucker Barnhart, C

    BN: Phil Ervin, OF
    BN: Curt Casali, C
    BN: Alex Blandino, IF
    BN: Blake Trahan or retread vet, IF

    1. Corey Kluber
    2. Dallas Keuchel (my preferred FA)
    3. Luis Castillo
    4. Anthony Desclafani
    5. Tyler Mahle

    LR: Cody Reed
    LR: Sal Romano
    MR: Amir Garrett
    MR: David Hernandez
    MR: Jared Hughes
    MR: Michael Lorenzen
    SU: Joakim Soria
    CL: Raisel Iglesias

    I’m pulling for Bob Steve, because I know he has the talent, but he needs to beat someone out if we go all in. In this scenario we still have the following in the farm system:

    Taylor Trammell
    Tony Santillan
    Jonathan India
    Tyler Stephenson
    Josiah Gray
    Mike Siani
    Jose Siri
    TJ Friedl

    Not to mention a couple of high value draft picks this June.

    Reply
    • Michael P

      Duke, I really like this. That line up could compete in 2019 with a 4/5 top 100 prospects on that list. Not counting the 2019 draft as you mentioned. We keep our #1 prospect and keep our closer. Yes, we give up Greene but he may never be Kluber.

      Reply
    • G-Man

      Duke – I love your plan! That would really make for an exciting season with a golden opportunity to compete right away. I sure wish that you were leading the charge in the Red’s front office!!

      Reply
    • KyWilson1

      Only problem is the Reds are razor thin at CF/SS/and SP with this. 1 or 2 injuries are going to happen and then this team is back at 75 wins. Keep the prospect depth, sign a FA pitcher or 2, JA Happ- Kikuchi, let the rest sort itself out while maintaining depth. 2020 is when the Reds should realistically be ready to contend with out selling the farm.

      Reply
    • Chrisr

      How does this help the tribe?? Sorry love the plan but there’s no ready players coming back to them in either case you lay out.. not gonna happen

      Reply
    • scottya

      Agree with this. My only other thought has been are we better off trading one year of Scooter + maybe an additional prospect of unknown level for one year of Alex Wood. I read on dodger blue their may have been discussions with Cleveland re alex wood.

      1. Kluber
      2. Keuchal
      3. Wood
      4. Castillo
      5. Desclafani

      Sign Andrew McCutchen if the price is right with the money saved by trading Scooter.

      1. Nick Senzel, 2b
      2. Jesse Winker, LF
      3. Joey Votto, 1B
      4. Eugenio Suarez, 3B
      5. Scooter Gennett, 2B
      6. Andrew McCutchen RF 3 years 39-42 million
      6. Scott Schebler, CF
      7. Jose Peraza, SS
      8. Tucker Barnhart, C

      Reply
      • Michael Smith

        Wish the NL would allow us to play 2 second basemen.

  14. Bill

    Kluber has averaged 6.5 WAR and won 2 Cy Young awards. He’s not cheep, but he is affordable averaging $17.5M per year and if his arm breaks, he can be cut for just $1M. The only problem I see, is can he sustain his perch atop MLB pitchers. Senzel is most likely in a super utility role. I would love to believe he’s a major league ready CF, but he’s probably not. Joey Votto isn’t getting younger and fans aren’t buying tickets.

    Trading a surplus player like Senzel (note: Long at AA; India, Garcia, and Downs likely at A+) is a solid plan if there are other acquisitions to accompany the move. A package led by Senzel and Iglesias means this deal cost about $11M. That leaves between $19M and $25M if Paul Daugherty’s report is accurate (he’s a professional and very likely has a solid source. Using Fangraph projections, that means starter Happ and reliever Miller are the types of guys you can bring in. And, in 2020, $18M of Bailey’s contract comes off the books and the Reds can sign (not mortgage the farm) to get another piece(s) to equip the club for a playoff run. I hope they can pull off a trade for Thor, Kluber, or Carrasco. I’ll pass on Bauer—track record is too short, and I want at least 3 years of control of a proven ace if we trade Senzel.

    Reply
    • redwolf

      agree with all of this…. Would not like to move Senzel or Trammel. Would be OK moving Greene because there are so many unknowns about pitchers and our Farm is lacking Star quality right now at the outfield position. Kluber has been dominant in the American league and has seldom had the advantage of facing the other teams pitcher. Cleveland wants (as another poster stated) some MLB ready talent and a good prospect. But, the reality is whoever takes Kluber is taking 17 million off their books so I think this is a doable deal keeping Senzel and Trammel. But, I do think we have to give a package to make them feel comfortable competing this year. Meaning they would need another arm in the rotation for this year and second baseman or an outfielder. I just do not know who we want to give up on our 40 man in the outfield. I have seen Winker’s name, but, take him out of our line up and we are really thin out there.

      Reply
      • DanD

        Totally agree that we should not trade Senzel or Trammell. The Reds have not had a prospect like Trammell since Bruce. As posted above not only do we need pitching but we need to score more runs as well..Out of the top 5 if can trade for a TOR with Greene and/or India I am fine with that.

        I would also put Tyler Stephenson as an untouchable since we have no other catching prospects in the minors.

        Other than those 3 I would say everyone else can be traded…..

  15. Cguy

    Personally, I’ll be disappointed if the Reds trade any of their top 5 prospects this winter. They could add $40M in payroll plus trade all 5 of their best prospects and still not win the division. they’re just not that close yet.

    Reply
  16. Ryan Singer

    I would trade any of our prospects to get Kluber considering a SP of his caliber would never sign in Cincinnati on FA contract. I’m tired of sitting around and hoping prospects come up and perform when you have opportunities to get proven players who have done it at the major league level. I just always remember how Austin Kearns was supposed to be a future HOF’er and how’d that work out? Considering how long we’ve been bad, to think that if we trade a couple top prospects that we’re in danger in the future speaks more to our misses in the draft than to an overpay for MLB talent.

    I’d love to get either Kluber/Bauer and sign even Holland/Bucholz/Miley to add into rotation and then have money to sign Pollack to patrol CF this year while we wait for someone like Trammel to come up next year if we didn’t deal him already.

    I agree that we don’t get anything of substance for Gennett even though I love the guy.

    Reply
  17. AllTheHype

    1. Trade Greene/Winker and lesser pieces for Kluber or Syndergaard. Probably better fit with Cleveland because they need OFs and WInker can also be DH some days.
    2. SIgn Keuchel or Happ
    3. Sign Cutch for LF
    4. Senzel to CF
    5. After the glut of FA 2B sign and depress the monetary value of that position, extend Scooter (ideally before arb hearing).
    6. Use prior SP prospects (Reed, Romano, etc) to shore up bullpen

    WIth the 6M saved from Billy and expanded payroll, should be able to do the above.

    SP
    Kluber
    Keuchel
    Castillo
    Desclafani
    Mahle/Reed/Stephenson

    Lineup
    Senzel
    Scooter
    Votto
    Suarez
    Cutch
    Schebler
    Peraza
    Barnhart
    P

    That team could compete.

    Reply
  18. Big Ed

    I would go the free agent route, not trades. And I count Greinke as a free agent, not a trade, because he would not command a top prospect, unless the Reds demanded a ton of salary relief.

    The Reds’ options are: (1) with trades, have an expensive pitcher or two without their top prospects, or (2) with free agency, have an expensive pitcher or two, while keeping their top prospects. I will take Option No. 2, especially this year. Would they rather have Kluber, or Eovaldi AND Senzel.

    Reply
  19. redlegs4ever

    Nationals gave Corbin 6 years and 140 Mil, glad we stayed the heck outta that…

    Reply
  20. Datdudejs

    Halfway serious dream scenario:
    1: Sign Harper. Backload it for when Homers contract comes off
    2: Trade for Stroman and Gray without giving up Senzel, Greene, trammel, or Santillan
    3: find another Hughes/ Hernandez type of signing
    4: wait out market and hope pollocks price drops and sign him if possible
    5: resign Harvey to cheap deal after waiting out market
    6: sign Billy to a minor league contract with an invite to spring training if he will accept it and work him out at short and 2nd base to be a utility guy

    1. Pollock
    2. Winker
    3. Votto
    4. Harper
    5. Suarez
    6. scooter
    7. Peraza
    8. Tucker

    Super-sub Senzel, 4th outfielder Schebler, billy lidr-pr

    1. Castillo
    2. Stroman
    3. Gray
    4. Harvey
    5. Disco

    Score a billion runs, hope the rotation rebounds and then at the deadline if they are competing swing a trade for a top of the rotation guy then

    It could happen!

    Reply
  21. Oldtimer

    Someone above mentioned 1990 SP rotation as a good target for Reds to match.

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CIN/1990.shtml the strength of Reds P that season was the bullpen, not starters.

    Rijo and Browning were excellent SP (Rijo especially) but Armstrong and Jackson just decent SP.

    The Nasty Boys (bullpen) were a major reason the Reds won WS that year.

    Reply
    • Simon Cowell

      Problem is we have no equivalents in any area. Nothing nearly matching Rijo and Browning. Our top pitchers don’t even come close to Armstrong and Jackson. So we need 4 starters at least that good. Now on to our bullpen. Igleisas is good but he isn’t as good as one of the nasty boys. Sorry but its true. We have ZERO pieces to model after our 1990 pitching staff. Are we going to start a new rebuild to strive for such a goal? I don’t think so.

      The Reds will be better served to look for excellent middle relief with one or two closers.

      Reply
      • Oldtimer

        I don’t expect the 2019 Reds to be anywhere close to 1990 Reds. BUT the 1990 team did win 16 more games than 1989 did. Randy Myers was the key addition in a trade for John Franco.

      • Doug Gray

        I mean, you are right about the starters, but you aren’t right about the bullpen, mostly.

        Iglesias, Hughes, and Hernandez threw 214.2 innings. That’s the big difference. The Nasty Boys combined for 339.1. But when it comes to the quality of those innings, the three-headed monster of 2018 stacks up. Their combined ERA+, which is adjusted for the ballparks pitched in and the league itself was 188. That’s 88% better than the league average ERA. The Nasty Boys ERA+ in 1990 was 182. Still incredibly good, but only 82% better than the league average ERA.

        The difference was the number of innings thrown – mostly on the back of 154 thrown by Charlton thanks to 16 starts. And before you ask, his ERA was better as a starter, 2.60, than as a reliever, 3.02. I used his season numbers for the above math, not his reliever numbers, which would have changed things a bit.

        And with the rotation, I’ll argue that Luis Castillo can match up with that rotation, aside from Rijo. Outside of April of 2018, he’s done just that and then some. Still, have to add something else to the rotation.

  22. Jim

    We had Cueto as #1 , Arroyo #2 and Bailey #3, when we got Latos.
    We have nothing that can pitch remotely close to these guys. We need #1, #2, and #3. Trade the farm boy’s and throw in the I-75 bridge for Klub, Bauer and Carasco!
    C’mon Bob C, we don’t have many seasons left!!!

    Reply
  23. Wes

    Y’all are reaching. The bottom of free agent market is gonna fallout and quality players are going to sign for much less just like last season. Reds need to fill roster that way and keep their prospects.

    Do u like what Mets did ? They could have signed Lowrie and Kimbrel and kept their two best prospects while spending less money. Why duplicate that dumb move ??

    Indians need salery relief- if they get desperate- go for it. If not build around a discounted free agent market

    Reply
  24. kevinz

    Most of the players wait for the Top FA to sign. That usually sets the market.

    Reply

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