After listening to the press conference, all I came up with was this thought:
Our owner has his heart in the right place wanting to win, but has his head somewhere else on how to actually accomplish it.
Lets fast forward to July 1st, here is what our roster could look like;
- 1B Joey Votto
- 2B Brandon Phillips
- SS Jeff Keppinger
- 3B Edwin Encarnacion
- LF Adam Dunn
- CF Jay Bruce
- RF Ken Griffey Jr
- C Who cares
- SP Aaron Harang
- SP Johnny Cueto
- SP Bronson Arroyo
- SP Edinson Volquez
- SP Homer Bailey
- RP Francisco Corder
- RP Jared Burton
- RP Bill Bray
Does anyone honestly think that team can’t win? Thats what Wayne was on the verge of putting together here. Instead, he was fired and a guy who was run out of St Louis was brought in for the job. Why was Jocketty run out of St Louis? They wanted to go more scouts/stats than just scouts and he wasn’t with that ideology so they let him go. Great. Thrilling.
Now lets think about what this can do for our farm system, lets look at the first three picks of every draft that Walt Jocketty oversaw as a GM:
- Matt Morris
- Chris Haas
- Braden Looper
- Brent Butler
- Adam Kennedy
- Rick Ankiel
- JD Drew
- Ben Diggins
- Chance Caple
- Nick Stocks
- Shaun Boyd
- Blake Williams
- Justin Pope
- Dan Haren
- Calvin Hayes
- Josh Bell
- Daric Barton
- Stuart Pomeranz
- Chris Lambert
- Mike Ferris
- Colby Rasmus
- Tyler Greene
- Adam Ottavino
- Chris Perez
There are a few names in there worth noting, but there are a whole lot of ‘who the heck is that guy’s in there for having so many first round picks over the years. So be careful on getting attatched to some of our kids, I don’t trust Jocketty to keep them so much. He did trade two of the better picks listed above in Daric Barton and Dan Haren for Mark Mulder who has pitched 20 games and gone 22-18 with a 1.52 WHIP and a 5.04 ERA. Haren over the same period of time has gone 43-34 with a 1.21 WHIP and a 3.64 ERA along with a Top 25 prospect in baseball in Daric Barton and Kiko Calero who has been pretty strong out of the bullpen for Oakland.
Here is my open letter to Bob, not that he will read it.
Bob Castillini,
Trust me, I want to win. We all want to win. The issue is though, I don’t want to win just this year. I want to win for years and years to come and Wayne Krivsky was well on his way to making that happen before you prematurely pulled the rug out from under his feet with your trigger happy ways. Unless you want to put out about 25-30 million more per year toward player salary, Walt Jocketty isn’t going to do much for you. You have made me bitter today toward the Reds and its the second time you have done that since the end of last year and trust me, its real difficult to make me bitter toward the Reds. Mama still ain’t happy Bob, but this time its not because of the losing, its because your heart is in the right spot but you decision making abilities aren’t.
Doug Gray
Wednesday, 23. April 2008
Doug , I’m with you 100 percent on this.Krivsky was brought in because of his supposed expertise in bringing success to a ” small market” team. A lot of his loudest critics complain about trades that didn’t work out and that is a point against him. But a lot of those same folks were complaining that the Reds needed to ” do ..something-anything” at the time. And Daryl Thompson may yet have something to say about the Big Trade. Krivsky was hired to build the organization from the farm system up and he has done exactly that. Throw in acquisitions like Philipps and Volquez (via Hamilton , of course) and it looks to me like the Reds are only a season from being a real contender for a long time. There are a couple fellows in the middle of the batting order whose production would make any GM look bad.They may both be gone next year. It’s a shame Mr. K. won’t be here to decide which of his blossoming farm hands to bring up.
Wednesday, 23. April 2008
Doug,
I see it the same way you do. I would add maybe Roenicke to you list. But we are on the verge of having a strong team for years. WJ worries me a lot. He does not look long term. This team now is so much better than when he arrived. He should at least get 4 years to see if he was good or bad.
Wednesday, 23. April 2008
To some degree, Castellini’s demands to “WIN NOW” led to the Kearns trade. The 2006 Reds just weren’t that good, and in any event, the likes of Gary Majewski weren’t going to make the difference.
I won’t absolve Krivsky from blame for that, since he bought in to that stupid pledge, but this isn’t the first time that Castellini’s “Little Stein” tendencies have come back to bite him (and us).
Wednesday, 23. April 2008
I agree completely that Castellini owed Krivsky the courtesy of at least finishing this season (don’t the Reds have enough guys being paid for doing nothing?) but I have a question about your implication of Jocketty’s draft record in your comments: out of his 24 draftees you list, I count 5 (Morris, Kennedy, Drew, Haren & Barton) and arguably 6 or 7 (Ankiel and Looper) serviceable to excellent major league players (at least in their respective primes). Is this worse, better or somewhere in between most GMs? I don’t honestly know but I’d guess it’s no worse than average. Also, the gut reaction is to assume the sky is falling in regards to his anti-stats reputation but Baker’s hiring provoked a similar reaction across the Reds blogsphere and excepting his presumed role in bringing in Patterson, he really hasn’t done much to warrant it (Cueto’s and Volquez’s pitch counts are reasonable, Votto is getting AB’s, etc.). Everybody take a deep breath; perhaps Jay Bruce will make all of this seem completely silly in the not too distant future.
Wednesday, 23. April 2008
Dusty Baker is so out of stats he didn’t know Patterson was 0-22 until John Fay told him. There is non stat guys, then there are idiots. You can choose which one Baker is for you…. but I know what he is for me.
Wednesday, 23. April 2008
Jocketty pretty much struck gold with all of his trades in St. Louis. McGwire, Renteria, Edmonds, Kile, Rolen,Wainright, and Larry Walker were all above average perfomers for the Cardinals. Can anyone argue with that? Having said that I think LaRussa deserves a lot of credit for incorporating all of those players into his system.
The thing that gets me the most is Castellini’s handling of the situation. Why now? Why can’t he just come out and say he is more comfortable with Jocketty as his GM? It just wreaks of a panic move.
Wednesday, 23. April 2008
Krivsky +’s
+outstanding organizational development of scouting and player development
+Midas touch type eye for talent
Krivsky’s -’s
-Poor communicator and perceived abrasive personality
-Appears stubborn
-Contract management - Harang/Dunn were great, but they don’t count if you extend everyone…. Castro, Freel, Weathers, Cormier, Stanton, Valentin
-Inability to deligate, everyone talks about how tirelessly this guy works……..definite sign that he’s a control freak. All managers have to be effective at delegating and trusting the people around them.
-Roster management - 3 fucking catchers
Krivsky needs to manage a city with no budget at all. He will be back and be a better communicator next time, and be very good.
Hate the timing, and agree that you can’t do this on a whim after a momentum building win. Bad form by The Robert.
Wednesday, 23. April 2008
I’m very upset over this decision by Castellini. Krivsky has been treated badly, just as O’Brien–who I continue to think very underrated by Reds fans–was before him. Between them they have built a much better organization. That it’s taken as long as it has is a measure of how bad Bowden left things. What worries me most now is our owner. I consider his pressure to win now to be a partial factor behind some of the bad moves Krivsky’s made in the last couple years. Despite that pressure, K went on to put together a team that is just on the cusp, I believe, of being very good. This is exactly the moment when a little more faith was needed, and Castellini didn’t have it. It will be absolutely heartbreaking to those of us who have followed the last five years closely if Jocketty starts dismantling what O’Brien and Krivsky have put together–and I fear he will, all in the name of winning now, which I don’t think this team is quite capable of at its current level of experience. So we’ll make some trades, come up short, and be no better in three years than we are now. The only way to build was that laid out by O’Brien and Krivsky and they almost made it.
Wednesday, 23. April 2008
I am still trying to figure out how a guy with a consistant top 10 payroll in baseball gets hired to run a team in the bottom 10 in payroll and how his qualifications make him suitable for the job.
Thursday, 24. April 2008
IMO WK biggest mistake was not getting along with or letting Alvarez escape. That was a big loss to the organization to me. For all of WK good moves, there are equal amount of bad ones. That is how this business is … not every move is going to pan out. Even the best GMs make bad deals. If I had my preference, I’d get O’Brien back in here to run the draft/scouting department. That is the one thing Dan did well in turning around our farm system. I too cringe at what could happen to our system now. Walt tends to purge farm systems of talent to get vets. While I dont mind an occasional trade of prospects, I dont want it at the expense of the future. The only hope I can find was Walt’s statement during tonights game that they needed to continue to build through the farm system. Maybe he has learned from his mistakes of the past. It is all we have to hope for for now.
Thursday, 24. April 2008
I was surprised to see the poll running at 92 percent against the firing……until I remembered that I was reading Redsminorleagues.com. I think most of us who come here on a regular basis would admit to some bias towards building from the farm system. I read some of the comments on the Cincinnati.com site and it appeared to be running about 50/50. It seems that most of those who have wanted Krivskys head on a platter are posting over there.I don’t think Krivskys detractors have embraced the concept of building from within. Mr. Castellini appears to have lost patience partly due to the noise those folks have been making to win…now!
Thursday, 24. April 2008
Yeah, this move screams of Carl Linders ‘go sign Eric Milton’ idea when things weren’t going his way.
Thursday, 24. April 2008
One of the things I’ve been worried about with the Krivsky firing is how this is perceived around baseball because in the end you have to be able to attract good people to work for the organization. Well here are the thoughts from Jayson Stark at ESPN.com:
Ready, Aim, Fire Dept.: Reds owner Bob Castellini has no idea how many people in baseball he alienated by firing his GM, Wayne Krivsky — as well-liked and highly respected a man as you’ll find in the business.
“They just went from a team you root for to a team you root against,” is the way one veteran baseball man put it Wednesday.
Sure, Krivsky made his share of mistakes. Goes with the turf. But have there been three bigger steals in the past two years than Bronson Arroyo for Wily Mo Pena, Brandon Phillips for Jeff Stevens, or Josh Hamilton for 50,000 bucks? And Jeff Keppinger for Russ Haltiwanger is right up there, too.
So why was this guy fired again? Because this team came out of spring training with a little promise and then started 9-12? Ridiculous. The Yankees, Phillies, Cubs and Rockies were all 9-12 or worse last year this time — and made the playoffs.
“There’s nothing worse than these owners who treat the national pastime like it’s the frigging stock market,” said an official of one team. “They think it’s got to keep going up, up, up, every day. But that’s just not the way of works. This is a game of human beings.”
Thursday, 24. April 2008
pw,
Thanks for posting that. I am still pretty upset over the move, but at least baseball minds in the game are thinking the same things I am. Makes me feel a little better.
Thursday, 24. April 2008
http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/10795443/2
There is a good story on CBS Sportline about the Wayne firing I thought might interest you.
Start to Scott Miller’s article
“It was only three springs ago in Sarasota, Fla., that I was sitting in Cincinnati owner Bob Castellini’s office, discussing his big plans for the Reds and listening to him rave about his just-hired general manager, Wayne Krivsky.
Castellini spoke of the importance of patience in rebuilding the Reds. He pointed to the Minnesota Twins — where he found Krivsky — as a model organization.
Wayne Krivsky didn’t have a prayer of finishing the job he started in Cincinnati. (AP)
One of the keys to the Twins’ success, he told me, is their continuity. Smart people were running the baseball operations, and they were allowed to keep doing their jobs even in the lean years. The result was a strong foundation that, more often than not, has thrived. …”
Later in article
“…What happened to patience?
Castellini’s words, it turns out, were only lip service. That thing about putting good people in place and letting them do their jobs? Hogwash.
It’s a poor way to run a franchise. It’s a worse way to treat a human being (especially one who was hired in February 2006, only days before the start of spring training, and was forced to learn everything about the Reds on the fly)… “
Thursday, 24. April 2008
I thought this team was on the verge of being pretty good. I would have kept Mackanin, he had them playing as well as maybe anyone could that bunch to play last year. Krivsky negotiated some terrible deals, but helped engineer some incredible deals, like picking up Josh Hamilton, then trading him for Volquez. Teams not named “Yankees”, “Red Sox” and “Braves” need a good farm system. We have that now, but for how long. I was skeptical about Dusty, but I did not like the Jocketty hiring. I thought the only possible good might be an ability to make a trade near the deadline (Hatteberg and Freel anyone?)